BMW E36 V8 Swap Part 8: Engine Size Comparison -and- "You Shouldda LS-ed It"

"MikaelVroom" (mikaelvroom) 06/06/2016 at 12:05 • Filed to: None

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We’re taking a short break from your regularly-scheduled build thread to address the concerns brought up by people that can’t be bothered to do 38 seconds of Google searching. Today, we’re talking about size.

When I tell someone that I’m installing a Ford 5.0 V8 into my ‘97 BMW M3, the most common reactions are:

“How are you cramming that huge engine into a little BMW???”

“You’ll completely destroy the balance of the car!!!”

“SHOULDDA LS-SWAPPED IT, BRO!!”

“That’s very nice, sir, but did you want the combo meal or just the sandwich?”

HAHAHA just kidding. As an introvert, I’d never willingly initiate a conversation with someone and admit that I own a BMW.

Like The Hulk, but less green and more pale off-blue

But for real, people seem to correlate “V8" with “hulking, giant...uh...hulk...of iron”. As you’ll see below, the simple, compact pushrod V8 is dimensionally smaller than the DOHC inline-6.

“But what about the car’s balance,” you’ll ask me. “Have you forgotten to address the second of only three potentially legitimate points you brought up way back at the beginning of this post?”

No, astute reader, I have not forgotten. Here the deal - believe it or not, the installed weight of a Ford pushrod small block V8 is less than that of the original engine. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! weighed a BMW M52/ZF combo at 548lbs. Compare that to 475lbs. for the aluminum headed 302/T5 combo he weighed, or about 525lbs. for an iron-head 302/T5 combo.

Worst case scenario says that adding the V8 is pretty much break-even on weight, and if I ever swap to aluminum heads, I’ll lose 50lbs. The funny thing is that turbocharging a car by adding charge piping, intercooler, turbo, and more will routinely add 120-150lbs to the car (much of it at the very front), but no one heckles turbo swaps for ruining their car’s perfect, German-engineered balance. What now, turbo-bros?

LS LS LS LS LS LS LS

And the LS? The small block Ford 302 is dimensionally smaller than a GM LSx engine by an inch or two in width and height, and the T5 transmission I’m using is at least 50lbs lighter than the T56 that an LS needs behind it. The complete aluminum LS1/T56 combo comes out to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (for the math challenged among you, that’s 84lbs more than a 5.0/T5), and an iron block LS/T56 combo adds at least 80lbs more to the Al block. So the 5.0 setup is significantly lighter.

What about cost? Get. Out. You can probably find a decent iron block 5.3 from a truck for a few hundred bucks, and you can even find the LM4 aluminum 5.3 in the $500 range, but good luck finding a T56 for less than $2000, versus the $300 and $150 I paid for my 5.0 and T5, respectively. So AT A MINIMUM, expect to spend $2500 for the LS drivetrain, or more than 5 times what I paid for the 5.0 setup.

Where does the LS win? Stock power and max power. Your basic 5.3 LS will usually pump out at least 300hp right out of the box, and the stock blocks are good for ungodly amounts; more than enough for me to break the record for “World’s Quickest Death During the Initial Test Drive.”

The best factory 5.0 only ever put out 240hp. Obviously modifications help, and the right combination of heads, pistons, and cam (or maybe a stroker kit) can see the 5.0 heaving out an honest 400-450hp. But now you’re at least $3000 into the engine and you’re definitely pushing the limits of what a stock T5 will take without stripping itself faster than a pre-med c0-ed with overdue student loan payments.

Also, the stock 5.0 blocks will !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . So that’s your ceiling.

So when should you go LS? I say only if you want to make 500+ horsepower. You can pump a 5.0 up to stock LS power levels, but you can’t strip an LS down to 5.0 weight. Something something Colin Chapman.

Look at my junk

What have we learned today? Not only does swapping to the Ford V8 not add a ton of weight versus the stock BMW 6 cylinder, but if you look at the top-down pictures, it’s obvious how much shorter the engine is. That means more of the engine sits behind the front tires, which means more favorable weight distribution and handling characteristics. Win-win.

Have a look below. And apologies in advance for the obnoxious watermarks. These kind of photos often end up spreading to the far reaches of the internet, and I just want to make sure they can find their way home.

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Catch my build thread here on Oppo with a new installment each Monday (even on holidays, apparently), or if you like spoilers check out !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for the latest updates. Twitter me !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , Instagram me !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . I’m in Australia right now so I’m posting of pictures of cars you could find better pics of on Google.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > MikaelVroom 06/06/2016 at 18:53

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Apparently an article not on progress = no love from commenters. This was an informative post, you don’t hear much about the 5.0 on this site much for swaps, only LSes. Although the V8 is compact, there is something I like about the layout of the inline 6, everything just seems more apparent in location(although, I’m fairly new to being under the hood of a car).

Are you doing any mods to the 5.0 before dropping it in?

MikaelVroom > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 06/07/2016 at 02:03

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Two things got me. First, I got Kinja’d trying to schedule this to post automatically and ended up at 12:10 posting it at 12:05 so it was buried from the start. Second, I didn’t get shared to the front page. So no love! I’ll be back next week for sure.

Voodoo81 > MikaelVroom 06/08/2016 at 09:36

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Damn it I have spent the past two days looking for this post. I was like what the hell, today is Monday, where is my 302 M3 Swap fix. It is a shame that Ford never made a factory aluminum block 302. There are aftermarket blocks in aluminum that take care of the issue of the block splitting in half, but they cost a pretty penny. Stock is good enough for the time being, It will make the same amount of Hp as the Inline 6 but a whole lot more torque so it is all good.

Cigarette Butt Plug > MikaelVroom 06/10/2016 at 16:01

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Nice post. I had/have no clue about Ford motors, it was nice to learn the cost and capabilities.

vondon302 > MikaelVroom 06/15/2016 at 07:24

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Question

Couldn’t you get a bellhousing to match up a t5 to a ls? Also I’m glad your doing the 5.0 instead of the ls btw.

MikaelVroom > vondon302 06/15/2016 at 09:52

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Totally - Quicktime even sells bell housings to mate a Ford T5 to the LS engines, but a basic LS will already be beyond what’s recommended for a stock T5. If you plan on beating on it you’ll go through transmissions like underpants.

vondon302 > MikaelVroom 06/15/2016 at 09:54

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Gotcha thx.

99GTS > MikaelVroom 06/20/2016 at 13:50

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I think its awesome you are doing this swap, but I just love I6 engines.

MikaelVroom > 99GTS 06/20/2016 at 14:04

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I love I6 engines, but I love running engines even more.

borkborkborkbork69 > MikaelVroom 06/21/2016 at 08:06

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not to mention the V8 is shorter (height wise) than the I6, resulting in a lower CG... all in all you should have greatly improved vehicle dynamics... lighter, better weight distro, reduced turning moment, lower CG, moar power...

99GTS > MikaelVroom 06/21/2016 at 08:29

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Gotta go Japanese my friend!

MikaelVroom > borkborkborkbork69 06/21/2016 at 09:17

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Win-win-win-win-win.

borkborkborkbork69 > MikaelVroom 06/21/2016 at 11:16

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but on the downside, the T5 is a pretty clunky shifting transmission compared to the BMWs original. too bad you couldn't work up a bellhousing and spline shaft adapter....

Voodoo-u > MikaelVroom 06/21/2016 at 13:43

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Always thought the BMW I6 was 1) overrated and 2) huge, but it’s really impressive to see just how big it is side by side with a “bigger” 5.0 V8. Big weight difference as well. Very cool.

MikaelVroom > borkborkborkbork69 06/21/2016 at 14:04

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That’s a loooooot of time, money, and work for some theoretical “smoother shifting.”

borkborkborkbork69 > MikaelVroom 06/21/2016 at 14:44

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not saying it’s worth the trouble, just that as I recall it (my buddy had an early fox-stang GT) the 5 speed had the longest, mushiest

throws in the history of ever.

MikaelVroom > borkborkborkbork69 06/21/2016 at 16:01

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Mine’s from an ‘04 and was made by Tremec instead of Borg-Warner. It improved a bit in 20 years.

drdude > borkborkborkbork69 06/27/2016 at 10:32

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Not to mention, it cant take the power and abuse... but you could swap a T56 right in.. oh.. wait.. then he might as well used an LS-V8.... because the weight bitching is mostly in the trans. He has a horrible, easliy broken trans, and a block the breaks at 450hp.

WHISKEY > MikaelVroom 06/27/2016 at 11:38

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I am thoroughly enjoying this build write up, pretty pictures!

Brock Samson > MikaelVroom 09/09/2017 at 17:07

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As an e36 owner i applaud your swap. However, seeing a ford engine in there made me vomit a little in my mouth. You could have used anything, ANYTHING! Why a Ford?

Fearingz > MikaelVroom 10/15/2017 at 20:21

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Ok with the engine what do you think is better, twin turbo or supercharge?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MikaelVroom 08/08/2020 at 20:51

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We did an LQ4 with LS6 heads, .556 COMP cam, Weiand intake and bigger Ford injectors. I honestly can’t tell that the balance is any different— mainly because the feel of the seat in your back of the E46 is so satisfying.

So, I’m with you all the way. Although t he 80# of the iron block is nothing, given the shift rearward in CG. The T-56 feels precise.

Can you please say more about what you had to do about pan? We ended up with the Holden “down under” pan, which worked, but was a pain. The cross member and accessories clearance is tight on the E36 as is... what are you doing for pan mods? Or does the 302 fit right in?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MikaelVroom 08/08/2020 at 20:52

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The snarky answer I always give to justify my LS in E46?

“VANOS....” Next question?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MikaelVroom 08/08/2020 at 20:54

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Mallett claimed they got along fine with MA5 (the Aisin box) behind LS6 and LS7 Solstice/Skys ... but I’m skeptical to this day.

T-56 or 6060 is the only answer, so you are correct.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MikaelVroom 08/08/2020 at 20:57

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Nobody gets shared to FP much these days— despite some posters putting immense levels of great work into posts.

OTOH, the “crowd” over there is very different these days. You are among friends here... Over there anymore people judge you by the slogan on your foam trucker’s cap and the fabric in your looted slacks from The Gap.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Voodoo-u 08/08/2020 at 20:58

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The other swap fave that’s “bigger than it should be” is the VR6. I keep toying with those— the cylinders are nicely nestled together, but Hokey Chit! the intake and induction hardware is Yuuuuuge.